(#1998-63) - Topics This Issue: 1) Second Touch 2) Santa Monica High School 3) GW Philharmonic Organ Specs - FAQ's 4) Wasted space... 5) UPDATE: T.O. Riffs, tricks, frills etc. 6) Wasted space... 7) RCMH TO Xmas recording 8) Pizzicato - second touch 9) Pizzicato - second touch 10) PIZZICATO = FIRST TOUCH 11) Pizzicato - second touch 12) Pizzicato - second touch 13) Pizzicato - second touch 14) Pizzicato - second touch 15) Santa Monica High School 16) Pizzicato - second touch 17) 1' Tibias/Flutes 18) [Theatreorgans-L] Paul Carson/Bridge to Dreamland 19) 1' Tibias/Flutes 20) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 21) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 22) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 23) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 24) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 25) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 26) Tuned sleigh bells 27) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 28) Tuned sleigh bells 29) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 30) New Pics 31) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 32) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 33) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 34) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 35) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 36) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 37) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 38) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 39) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 40) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 41) Vox Humana 42) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 43) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 44) Vox Humana 45) FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query 46) Vox Humana 47) Vox Humana -Reply 48) HELP!!!!! 49) [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana 50) [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana 51) [theatreorgans-l] 1' Tibias/Flutes 52) [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:36:41 +1000 From: "Ian McIver" Subject: RE: [theatreorgans-l] Second Touch Tom McCarthy asked what second touch is and how it is used. Quite simply, it means that when you press harder than normal on the key (or whatever - read on) something else happens because a second set of contacts is activated by the finger or foot pressure against an additional and stronger spring. To all intents and purposes where a manual keyboard is fitted with second touch you have the effect of two keyboards in one. The method of use is to use a louder or more penetrating stop on second touch than that on first touch. In this way you can solo the notes played on second touch. There can be many reasons for doing so. You might wish to emphasise a counter melody, or you might wish to play the melody and accompaniment with the left hand, using second touch for the melody. Your right hand is thereby freed to provide, say, a glockenspiel embellishment, or a piccolo obbligato solo. These are just a couple of uses of manual second touch. Other devices, such as non-tonal percussions or chimes can often be set on second touch on the accompaniment manual for that special effect. How many manuals on theatre organs have second touch varies from instrument to instrument. On the smaller ones, it was often available only on the accompaniment manual. Larger organs would have it on two, or in some cases, three manuals. Often the number of stops was restricted to a handful for each manual as these could be accommodated on the contacts under the key, thus eliminating the need for a separate key relay for second touch. Second touch is also widely found on the pedal keyboards of theatre organs, usually to control the drums and cymbals, but on some larger instruments it was there also for the odd heavy reed or 32ft Diaphone. George Wright had a third touch on his organ - presumably it worked the same way. John Compton is said to have built an experimental console in the 1920s with separate degrees of touch to add twelve ranks of strings individually by increasing the key pressure. I don't know of any production instruments with this - offhand, I can't even think of any Comptons with twelve ranks of strings. Len Rawle fitted his organ so that when he wanted all or any of the tremulants could be actuated by pressing the keys of the Great or Solo manual (I forget which) into second touch. This recreated the effect on electronic organs of a delayed vibrato on solo voices. The device was not generally found before Hope-Jones popularised it, but it certainly was possible to achieve on some instruments with mechanical manual couplers, but which did not have electric action. I learned to play on a two-manual reed organ which had a mechanical Swell to Great coupler, on which one had to press quite lot harder for the coupled notes to come through. You could play this for second-touch effects. Second touch has a wider application than just on keyboards. Compton in England fitted his instruments with second touch on the stopkeys. If you pressed harder than normal on the tab, all other stops for that division of the organ would cancel, giving you that stop as a solo (or you could press a group of stops and cancel the rest in that way). Wurlitzer fitted most of their organs with a couple (sometimes more) of double-touch levers like piano pedals to the right of the swell pedals. One of these gave you a snare drum roll on first touch, with the bass drum a cymbals when you pressed harder with your foot. The second pedal gave two degrees of sforzando, adding most of the stops on first touch and the whole damn lot (sometimes glock and all) on second touch. Where there were more than two of these pedals, they gave things like varying degrees of thunder, etc. Of the English builders, Compton used a double-touch toe piston for the drum roll/grand crash; Christie used a lever like Wurlitzer's. Most British organs had crescendo pedals, so the full organ sforzando pedals were not so often fitted. Second touch is also often found on thumb pistons. Most commonly, pressing a piston harder than normal will cause it to affect pedal stops as well as those of the manual in question. I played a Compton many years ago where the first five Great pistons worked as generals and operated on all manuals if pressed harder -- i.e. press hard on piston 1 and it was as if you pressed piston 1 on all manuals and pedals. You needed to be careful... It was also interesting if you had the trem tabs set off on the piston on one manual, but on on another's. The trem tabs would flap furiously up and down like angry butterflies; so you had to be careful also how you set your solo manual pistons for trems. After this lengthy diatribe, I think I've told you all I can about second touches; but I am sure others will think of stranger applications of them. In the words of "1066 And All That", they are definitely a Good Thing. They are by no means confined to theatre organs, and indeed were first popularised by Hope-Jones in church organs - but many classical organists tend to look down their noses at such untraditional devices, but fortunately not all do; but you'd be hard pressed to find a new classical organ with second touch on its manuals. Regards, Ian McIver -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:43:01 +1000 From: "Ian McIver" Subject: RE: [theatreorgans-l] Santa Monica High School >Recently a list member emailed me privately asking about the organ > installed in Lewis and Clark High School here in Spokane.>.... Doesn't sound off-topic to me, and no need to apologise. A 4/49 Austin built in 1923 would probably be a lovely orchestral/symphonic organ, simliar to many they built for theatres. Let's hope they restore it and not let some neo-baroque faddist "update" it. Let's hear some more about these overlooked 1920s gems. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:55:19 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Trousdale Subject: Re: GW Philharmonic Organ Specs - FAQ's Since Allen Walker sent out the spec to the list (nicely reformatted) as a uuencoded attachment, I should follow that up with answers to some of the questions that have been raised and post them to the list as well so you all have the whole package. Rumor has it that this may eventually become a web page. If you have other questions about the meaning or function of any of the stops, let me know and I will try to dig it out. * * * * * What the heck is 3rd touch? (ORC-GRT 3rd touch) This feature can be found on the Fullerton Plummer Auditorium 4:36 organ and a few others. Unlike second touch (recently described in detail), there are no special springs or contacts required. Whenever the organist depresses three or more notes at the same time on the given manual, a coupler is brought into play. It is useful if playing a single note melody and a posthorn zap or something is desired. This could be done with second touch contacts, but third touch is mechanically much simpler. Usually the manual of choice is the great, with a source division of bombarde (orchesral) or the solo, but it could also be a set of stops having no keyboard of their own (like accompaniment second touch). Some organs also have 4th touch, which works with four fingers. * * * * * What about that x-rated stop? The x-rated stop is actually the solo vox humana 8' with interesting engraving on the tab. * * * * * What are delay couplers? The three delay couplers are most interesting. The amount of delay on each is adjustable with rotary switches; delays can be up to 1/2 second as I recall. The delay is like an echo; acting much like a tape delay. They are implemented with a set of very long shift registers fed by the scanned (multiplexed) keyboard output signal. There are some cuts by George using this feature using the various tibias with staggered delays that is most effective. * * * * * Why all the Orchestral intramanual couplers? This was something George wanted which he used occasionally for weird special effects. You wouldn't want them on all at the same time. * * * * * What about the transposer? The transposer was controlled by momentary buttons (one for up one semitone and one for down one semitone). Most organs having this feature will change the pitch of everything at the time you are playing, but most organists with perfect pitch have trouble with the feature, and don't use it. George's version affects only the pitch of the precorded player system playback, not the pitch of the playing keys. In this way he could create an overdub (sound on sound) recording where the playback was shifted in key compared to the material he would add on the second (overdub) pass. Bob Trousdale -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 09:26:07 -0600 From: Kevin Cartwright Subject: Wasted space... D$@nit! What ever happened to the good old "highlight," "COPY" and "PASTE" commands? That's what I do every time, and it ALWAYS works. > Hi Jan, > > Here it is. Enjoy. > > Cheers, > Allen > MN`$```\```#``0``$````,@!```3````T`$```(```#D!```'@```$$```!' > M96]R9V4@5W)I9VAT($AO;&QY=V]O9"!0:&EL:&%R;6]N:6,@3W)G86X@+2!3 > M=&]P(%-P96-I9FEC871I;VYS`)!!`!X````!``````9'`!X````-````06QL > M96X@5V%L:V5R`'1O;1X````!```````4`!X````!`````!(`!!X````+```` > M3F]R;6%L+F1O=`"='@````T```!!;&QE;B!786QK97(%`$0`;P!C`'4`;0!E > M`&X`=`!3`'4`;0!M`&$`<@!Y`$D`;@!F`&\`<@!M`&$`=`!I`&\`;@`````` -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:05:42 EST From: ToyCounter@aol.com Subject: UPDATE: T.O. Riffs, tricks, frills etc. Thanks to everyone who mailed me responses about where to find a method book for theatre-organ specific styling. I went to Indianapolis and visited with a friend I met on line and he had five volumes of a book called Vintage Theatre Organ Stylings by William McMains. After spending an afternoon checking out his totally tricked out, hot-rodded, 100% mint Allen Theatre Three with midi on all three manuals, pedalboard, raised platform, midi modules, multiple tone cabinets, leslies and conn pipes, it inspired me yet again to keep studying. My teacher keeps saying "But you need to learn hymms" and I keep coming up with theatre-style books. I think I might copy McMains book and put it in wood covers and crack it over my teacher's head. Then he might understand that I have no interest in liturgical organ. I have had to get rid of AOL at work. Therefore, I can't check my e-mail but maybe once a week. If anyone wants to send me a personal e-mail, please put ATTN: JOHN in the subject box so I can give those mails priority. Thanks!!! John Carington Chesterton, Indiana -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:16:28 -0500 From: "Allen Walker" Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Wasted space... To List (and Kevin): Please accept my apology for sending a posting to the entire List with an attachment. In a hasty flurry of sending replies with the GW organ spec attachment to a number of requestors, I inadvertently failed to notice that two automatically-addressed replies went to the entire List. I am guilty of violating my own rule of sending only plain ASCII to any mailing list. I hope that in the interest of conserving bandwidth, and in respecting those who cannot handle attachments, all of us will do better than I did. Cheers, Allen P.S. If anyone wants a cut&paste ASCII version, let me know. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:52:41 EST From: KriderSM@aol.com Subject: RCMH TO Xmas recording The Dick Liebert/Reg Dixon recording is available from: Organ Lit. Foundation It is item #3162 in their Catalog "GG" WurliStan -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:52:37 EST From: KriderSM@aol.com Subject: Pizzicato - second touch Steve Margison writes: Another use for second touch, this time usually on the great keyboard or wherever the right hand is playing, is to play "tag chords". I don't know the exact term, if there is one -- this is my term. In this case, the second touch voices would be setup to be FF or SFZ relative to the first touch voices -- a trumpet or trumpet combination is often used. When coming to the end of a musical phrase, especially if it ends with the right hand playing a full chord, a quick depression of the whole hand to second touch and then a release "hits" the FF voices to give a lightening quick accent. It sounds like Steve is describing the "Pizzicato" touch which takes the "Second touch" one step farther. When the Pizzicato tab is depressed (e.g. Solo Pizz. to Gt. ), the organist would set the Solo Post Horn 8' stoptab along with the Solo Pizz. to Gt. tab. While playing a legato melody, the organist presses the melody key to the second touch position, and the Solo Post Horn activates then deactivates the Post Horn even though the key remains in second touch position. In organs with this feature, try the Solo Pizz. to Pedal tab and register the 8' Kinura. The Pizzicato Kinura adds snap the a soft Flute pedal registration. WurliStan -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 12:05:31 -0600 From: "Steven Margison" Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch On 12/6/98, at 12:52 PM, KriderSM@aol.com wrote: >>Steve Margison writes: >>Another use for second touch, this time usually on the great keyboard >>or wherever the right hand is playing, is to play "tag chords". >It sounds like Steve is describing the "Pizzicato" touch which takes the >"Second touch" one step farther. You are correct, of course. I just described the technique as it could be done with a standard second touch so as not to write a book on the subject. Also, second touch is much more common than pizzacato stops, unfortunately. According to Tom Hazleton (one of the brains behind the Allen GW Signature) they have a pizzacato stop under development for that new organ. Hmmmm... Seems with about 5 computers running it that shouldn't be a problem.... Thank you for adding to this thread! |===================== Steve Margison =====================| |=== Staff Organist, Tivoli Theatre, Downers Grove, IL. ===| |Organs, Theatres, Ham Radio, Lots of things at my WebSite:| | www.organman.com | |==========================================================| -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:55:25 EST From: WILLSONR@aol.com Subject: PIZZICATO = FIRST TOUCH To the list, The pizzicato coupler is a first touch function despite the fact that the stop tabs are adjacent to the second touch stop tabs on a Wurlitzer organ. Pizzicato touch is a plucking sound. I've played an organ that had the pizzicato on second touch and it was absolutely worthless. Don't let the position of the pizzicato stop tabs deceive you. Dick Willson Houston, TX -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:12:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Grommes Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch ---KriderSM@aol.com wrote: > It sounds like Steve is describing the "Pizzicato" touch which takes the > "Second touch" one step farther. > > When the Pizzicato tab is depressed (e.g. Solo Pizz. to Gt. ), the organist > would set the Solo Post Horn 8' stoptab along with the Solo Pizz. to Gt. tab. > While playing a legato melody, the organist presses the melody key to the > second touch position, and the Solo Post Horn activates then deactivates the > Post Horn even though the key remains in second touch position. Question ... is Pizzicato always associated with 2nd touch, or does it have to be? I always presumed that pizzicato would just play without 2nd touch being involved but have never read a description until now, or had a chance to experiement with an organ that had a (working) pizzicato. I know that GW's Hollywood Philharmonic Wurlitzer (and the Allen repro thereof) has a Pedal "Tibia 8 Pizz" tab that works this way ... you just draw it like any other stop, but it only plays momentarily when the pedal is depressed. --Bob Grommes Phoenix _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:21:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Grommes Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch ---Steven Margison wrote: > On 12/6/98, at 12:52 PM, KriderSM@aol.com wrote: > According to Tom Hazleton (one of the brains behind the Allen GW > Signature) they have a pizzacato stop under development for that new > organ. They already have a Pedal Tibia 8 Pizzicato tab. But a Pizz. coupler would be great. Although, I'd rather see them work on a Sostenuto feature first. Did you hear anything about that? And can you offer any experience you might have had with how Sostenuto works? I get the impression there are different implementations. The basic idea is to allow a (usually right-hand) chord to be sustained via a foot switch, leaving a hand free for registration changes, embellishments on another manual, turning pages in music, or whatever. From some of the performances I've seen on organs so equipped, it looks like a "smart" sostenuto feature can figure out what manual(s) the right-hand is playing on, and just hold that chord. Also I've seen a trill sustained in this way while the oranist's hand is busy eith embellishments on another manual. Judging from the Rodgers literature their 360 T.O. has a "Great Sostenuto" piston or tab (I forget which) that I suppose you depress to change the function of the appropriate foot control from piano sustain to holding the current notes on the Great. Sounds like a much simpler but still useful implementation. Any light you or anyone else can shed for me on Sostenuto would be appreciated! --Bob Grommes Phoenix _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 20:00:08 -0500 From: "John (Jack) Cormack" Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch At 02:21 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >---Steven Margison wrote: > >> On 12/6/98, at 12:52 PM, KriderSM@aol.com wrote: > >> According to Tom Hazleton (one of the brains behind the Allen GW >> Signature) they have a pizzacato stop under development for that new >> organ. > >They already have a Pedal Tibia 8 Pizzicato tab. But a Pizz. coupler >would be great. Although, I'd rather see them work on a Sostenuto >feature first. Did you hear anything about that? And can you offer >any experience you might have had with how Sostenuto works? > >I get the impression there are different implementations. The basic >idea is to allow a (usually right-hand) chord to be sustained via a >foot switch, leaving a hand free for registration changes, >embellishments on another manual, turning pages in music, or whatever. > From some of the performances I've seen on organs so equipped, it >looks like a "smart" sostenuto feature can figure out what manual(s) >the right-hand is playing on, and just hold that chord. Also I've >seen a trill sustained in this way while the oranist's hand is busy >eith embellishments on another manual. > >Judging from the Rodgers literature their 360 T.O. has a "Great >Sostenuto" piston or tab (I forget which) that I suppose you depress >to change the function of the appropriate foot control from piano >sustain to holding the current notes on the Great. Sounds like a much >simpler but still useful implementation. > >Any light you or anyone else can shed for me on Sostenuto would be >appreciated! > >--Bob Grommes > Phoenix =================================================== My Rodgers 790 has a foot operated switch on the Great expression shoe that sustains the stop brought in on the Great MIDI A piston. The 790 has two MIDI pistons on each of the three divisions, but only sostenuto on the Great MIDI A piston. The 790 is a two manual classic voiced organ. (Apologies to Bruce who claims that if it is not wind blown it is not an organ! ) Jack Cormack Potomac, Maryland _______________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >TheatreOrgans-L The mailing list... >Sponsored by the Theatre Organ Home Page >Visit the Theatre Organ Home Page at http://theatreorgans.com >Organ Classifieds live at http://theatreorgans.com/ads/wtsall.htm > > -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:42:19 EST From: ORGANUT@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch Bob, Sostenuto is a method of sustaining a single note or a group of notes when you remove your hand from the keyboard which has the sostenuto feature. Even though the keys have been released, the note/notes continue to sustain themselves. Obviously there has to be a mechanism to continue to provide keying voltage to those notes which are being sustained. On the solid state relays this is a relatively simple feature to install. On my Wurlitzer PO, the sostenuto is on the great keyboard only. I installed it myself. I am using a Devtronix solid state relay. Devtronix sells a 61 note stop switch which is called a single rank driver. This card is a combination 61 note stop switch with the chest magnet drivers also. It has a separate +12vdc power terminal input for the chest magnet drivers. The sixty one INPUTS to the stop switch are wired to the 61 notes on the keyboard which is to have the sostenuto feature. The 61 OUTPUTS from the magnet drivers are wired (boot strapped) right back to the INPUT pins. A normally open contact switch is installed on the expression pedal and wired to provide +12 vdc to the stop switch on/off terminal. When the foot switch is closed, and voltage goes from the key/keys being played to the chest magnet for that note, that voltage also goes through the stop switch and turns on its' corresponding chest magnet driver chip. +12 vdc is now fed right back to the input. Since that voltage is coming from a separate source, it stays on and provides a parallel source to the chest magnet and sustains the note even though you release the key/keys. When the foot switch is released, the stop switch is turned off and the note/notes are released. This same single rank driver card can be used for a coupler. I hope this explanation is clear enough to understand. Later, Phil L. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:12:36 -0800 From: paul_a_arndt@juno.com (Paul A. Arndt) Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Santa Monica High School > A 4/49 Austin >built in 1923 would probably be a lovely orchestral/symphonic organ, simliar >to many they built for theatres. Let's hope they restore it and not let >some neo-baroque faddist "update" it. Let's hear some more about these >overlooked 1920s gems. I agree, that it should be kept as is. I will keep the list updated on the organ as it progresses. I am hoping the maybe Austin will bid on the rebuilding, but it will probably not go out for bids until later this year. I cannot remember the exact cost of the school renovation however, as I recall it is close to $50 million dollars and there are many alums here in Spokane who are taking a very active role in the renovation so that the renovated school stays as close as possible to the present school while conforming to the present codes regarding schools. The cornerstone was laid by President Theodore Roosevelt. If you ever pass through Spokane on Interstate 90, the school is in the middle of downtown and just one block south of the freeway. Paul Arndt Home email: paul_a_arndt@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 23:59:00 -0600 From: "Steven Margison" Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Pizzicato - second touch On 12/6/98, at 2:21 PM, Bob Grommes wrote: >And can you offer any experience you might have had with how Sostenuto works? Yes, I can. I have sostenuto on my Rodgers Eagle Special (though it is my installation, not an original feature.) Sostenuto is USUALLY on the great manual, but of course that's, not cast in concrete. It was always my belief that the keys pressed on the great were held when the sostenuto was pressed, and the organist could then continue playing other notes which did not get held, or switch to another keyboard, or wipe his nose, or whatever. However, I heard Ron Rhode make a comment one time, before using the sostenuto on a Barton organ, that some sostenutos are "additive"; i.e., while the pedal is pressed any further notes played also get held, not just those active when the pedal was pressed. I think this would be an exception though, as the former appears to be prevalent. I assumed the GW Signature had a sostenuto feature; I never asked Tom about it. Now I'm not sure. If it doesn't, I don't know why. That's a no-brainer programming feature. I know -- I did it to my organ! |===================== Steve Margison =====================| |=== Staff Organist, Tivoli Theatre, Downers Grove, IL. ===| |Organs, Theatres, Ham Radio, Lots of things at my WebSite:| | www.organman.com | |==========================================================| -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:38:31 -0800 (PST) From: NickGTV@webtv.net (Nick Grbac) Subject: 1' Tibias/Flutes Hi: Was wondering if anyone could answer this question I've had for awhile: particularly on 3-4 manual organs, often only the Great has a 1' Tibia or Flute, while other manuals frequently just go up to 1-1/3 or 1-3/5...no 1'. If the pipes are there, and 1' stops add quite a bit to the overall sound with many uses, why are they frequently not found on non-Great manuals? Just wondering... Nick NickGTV -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:35:39 +1000 From: "Ian McIver" Subject: RE: [Theatreorgans-L] Paul Carson/Bridge to Dreamland Bob Loesch wrote: Can > anyone on the list tell me where Paul Carson broadcast and recorded his > Bridge to Dreamland program? I have a couple of copies of transcription discs of these programmes. I believe Paul Carson recorded them at the NBC Studios somewhere in the Los Angeles/Hollywood area. I have been trying to recall the details, but with no joy. I have a feeling it was a composite organ about 3/10 size. Hope this helps; with luck it may stir someone else's memory. Regards, Ian McIver in Sunny Brisbane -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:02:33 EST From: WILLSONR@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] 1' Tibias/Flutes To the List, On most Wurlitzer theatre organs built in the 1920s the flute had 97 pipes that played 16', 8', 4', 2-2/3', 2', and 1-3/5' on the great manual. The 1-3/5 therefore ended at the top G#. However I have a set of Kimball flutes that extended through the tierce. The Wurlitzer tibias usually were 73 notes on the smaller organs playing at 16' TC, 8', and 4'. On the later models the tibias were extended through the 2' range which allowed the 2-2/3 and 2' stops on the solo and great manuals. I personally have never seen any original Wurlitzers that had tibias playing at 1-3/5', 1-1/3', or 1'. These stops were usually added in later years when the organs were respecified. Quite often the additional pipes were not provided and the stops did not completely play through the top octave, the 1' would have no pipes for the top octave but would have been useful in the middle range of the keyboard. How many on the list have tried to tune the 1' octave? Dick Willson Houston, TX -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:25:43 -0600 From: "Jerrell Kautz" Subject: FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Another Theatre Organ Home Page query perhaps some of you can answer. You= may respond directly to Melodyboy@aol.com Thanks! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hi Jerrell!! I have a question for you. Im sure you have heard Sydney Torch's recordings done on the Marble Arch organ, in a few of the recordings you can hear a= most interesting sound! Tuned Bird Whistles!!!! Do you have any idea who made those originaly? Or where they are now? Or what presures they originaly= ran on??? And all that good stuff like that????? If you have no clue, do you know someone who might? Im very curious about this, and if possible would like to see if i can have a set of these= tweeters made. I emailed ACME in the UK and inquired about the possibility of haveing= those chirpers reproduced. If ya know the scoop, please pass it along, or if ya can, hook me up= with someone who could give me more info. Thanks for your time, talk to ya later tater!~ Always..... Cory Wright -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:58:11 EST From: WILLSONR@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query To the List, I believe that Organ Stop Pizza in Mesa, AZ has just acquired a new set of tuned bird whistles. Perhaps someone there can tell you who made them. Dick Willson Houston, TX -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:13:59 EST From: Wurliman@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query In a message dated 98-12-07 09:08:46 EST, you write: << has just acquired a new set of tuned bird whistles. >> Perhaps someone could tell me WHY anyone would WANT them?? :):) djb -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:33:18 -0600 From: Donald H Peterson Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Wurliman@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-12-07 09:08:46 EST, you write: > > << has just acquired a new set of > tuned bird whistles. >> > > Perhaps someone could tell me WHY anyone would WANT them?? :):) > Pehaps to play "Listen to the Mockingbird". -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:41:24 -0500 From: Stanley Lowkis Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query WILLSONR@aol.com wrote: > > To the List, > > I believe that Organ Stop Pizza in Mesa, AZ has just acquired a new set of > tuned bird whistles. Perhaps someone there can tell you who made them. > I heard that they were destroyed during a feline rampage incident that occured during the nitely performance of "Alley Cat". Stan :) -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:40:16 EST From: PipeLuvr@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query In a message dated 12/7/98 9:28:32 AM Central Standard Time, Wurliman@aol.com writes: > Perhaps someone could tell me WHY anyone would WANT them?? :):) Actually they're kinda fun IF you're into accompaniment of silent films, cartoons, etc. When the bad guy gets slugged or a load of bricks dumped on him, the sound of birds chirping works nicely with the dazed character staggering around. Bob -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:21:33 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Tuned sleigh bells On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query > Pehaps to play "Listen to the Mockingbird". Yes as the theme song for the Three Stooges. Re: Tuned sleigh bells--- How many pieces of music can -tuned- sleigh bells be usefull for? Gary K. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:22:54 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 PipeLuvr@aol.com wrote: > Actually they're kinda fun IF you're into accompaniment of silent films, > cartoons, etc. When the bad guy gets slugged or a load of bricks dumped on > him, the sound of birds chirping works nicely with the dazed character > staggering around. But you only need one bird whistle for that not a tuned set. Gary K. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:33:12 -0600 From: Donald H Peterson Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Tuned sleigh bells Gary wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: > Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query > > > Pehaps to play "Listen to the Mockingbird". > > Yes as the theme song for the Three Stooges. > I didn't think of that! I like it!!! Don -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:52:09 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query > > > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: > > > Pehaps to play "Listen to the Mockingbird". > > Gary wrote: > > Yes as the theme song for the Three Stooges. On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: > I didn't think of that! I like it!!! Yes all I could think of was that opening mug shot of the Three Stooges with "Listen to the Mockingbird" playing on top of that wild chorus of bird twitters. Gary K. Oh------ "Let's All Sing Like The Birdies Do" tweet tweet tweet twett tweet. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:02:13 -0600 From: "Steven Margison" Subject: New Pics Perhaps somewhat off topic, but since so many people on these lists also do woodworking I thought I let you all know that my new home workshop is now completed and I have posted pics and text at my website. Also included is a photo of my Rodgers Eagle Special in our new home. |===================== Steve Margison =====================| |=== Staff Organist, Tivoli Theatre, Downers Grove, IL ===| |Organs, Theatres, Ham Radio, Lots of things at my WebSite:| | www.organman.com | |==========================================================| -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:03:34 EST From: Wurliman@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query In a message dated 98-12-07 10:44:23 EST, you write: << > In a message dated 98-12-07 09:08:46 EST, you write: > > << has just acquired a new set of > tuned bird whistles. >> > > Perhaps someone could tell me WHY anyone would WANT them?? :):) > Pehaps to play "Listen to the Mockingbird". >> Now, THERE would be one of the VERY few reasons I would need the effect !!! :):) LOL djb -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:18:18 -0800 From: Bob Loesch Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query At 10:22 12/7/98 -0600, Gary wrote: >But you only need one bird whistle for that not a tuned set. One MUST remember the theatre organists motto: IF ONE IS GOOD, MORE IS BETTER! Regards, Bob http://www.jps.net/rrloesch Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed... -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:47:44 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query > At 10:22 12/7/98 -0600, Gary wrote: > >But you only need one bird whistle for that not a tuned set. On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Bob Loesch wrote: > One MUST remember the theatre organists motto: IF ONE IS GOOD, MORE IS > BETTER! So true and the more of -what- depends on if you are an organist or organ enthusiast. The organist might want more strings with celestes but the organ enthuthiast might want more post horns, kinuras and saxophones. It is the same when an organist or organ enthisiast installs an organ in his/her home. The organist gets the flutes and strings going first but the organ enthusiast gets the traps working first the post horn second. The organist installs a blower of adequate size wheras the organ enthusiast installs a 10, 15 or 20 horse whopper that requires a substation close by to adequately power the blower. Gary K. who is full of you know what and is just teasing. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:08:46 -0600 From: Donald H Peterson Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Gary wrote: > > At 10:22 12/7/98 -0600, Gary wrote: > > >But you only need one bird whistle for that not a tuned set. > > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Bob Loesch wrote: > > > One MUST remember the theatre organists motto: IF ONE IS GOOD, MORE IS > > BETTER! > > So true and the more of -what- depends on if you are an organist or organ > enthusiast. The organist might want more strings with celestes but the > organ enthuthiast might want more post horns, kinuras and saxophones. > > It is the same when an organist or organ enthisiast installs an organ in > his/her home. The organist gets the flutes and strings going first but the > organ enthusiast gets the traps working first the post horn second. The > organist installs a blower of adequate size wheras the organ enthusiast > installs a 10, 15 or 20 horse whopper that requires a substation close by > to adequately power the blower. > > Gary K. who is full of you know what and is just teasing. I qualify as a lousey organist and an avid enthusiast. According to what Gary K wrote, I did it backwards. Oh Well! Don -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:57:02 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: > I qualify as a lousey organist and an avid enthusiast. According to what Gary > K wrote, I did it backwards. Oh Well! Ha! Ha! Ha! You shouldn't write that Don ;) I never said anything about the qualifications of either the "organist" nor the "organ enthusiast". I know some organ enthusiasts who are great musicians and I know some organists who play a lot of music inside out. Gary K. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:02:17 EST From: Wurliman@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query In a message dated 98-12-07 12:57:14 EST, you write: << > One MUST remember the theatre organists motto: IF ONE IS GOOD, MORE IS > BETTER! >> This is certainly true when talking of string and vox ranks. No such thing as too many. :) djb -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:09:00 -0600 From: Donald H Peterson Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Gary wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Donald H Peterson wrote: > > > I qualify as a lousey organist and an avid enthusiast. According to what Gary > > K wrote, I did it backwards. Oh Well! > > Ha! Ha! Ha! You shouldn't write that Don ;) I never said anything about > the qualifications of either the "organist" nor the "organ enthusiast". If it weren't for the Pointer System, I wouldn't even be a lousy organist. I am however a pretty good Theatre Organ Technician and a simply marvelous listener. Don -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:04:01 EST From: ROBIN88866@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query In a message dated 98-12-07 10:49:14 EST, you write: << I heard that they were destroyed during a feline rampage incident that occured during the nitely performance of "Alley Cat". >> Maybe one of these days the cats will finally get what they deserve in this situation---death by diaphone. Robin -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:50:53 EST From: ORGANUT@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Why not just go out and get a canary!!!!!!!!!! Phil L. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:02:48 -0600 From: Jan Girardot Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Wurliman@aol.com responded... > >Perhaps someone could tell me WHY anyone would WANT them?? :):) > If you haven't heard Sidney Torch play them, you couldn't understand! A really funny and interesting sound, IMHO. Jan ******************************************************************************* .....from Glenwood Springs, Colorado.....the Spa in the Mountains -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:06:03 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Vox Humana Is the vox humana considered to be more as a theatre organ stop rather than a church organ stop? The reason I ask this is that I have heard church organists refer to the vox humana as a non-rank by refering to an organ as having X number of ranks plus a vox. I know that the stop existed before the theatre organ in that reed organs had the lable "vox humana" on the knob that controled the fan tremulant. A three rank theatre organ usually has a string, flute and a vox but a three rank church organ would have string flute and diapason. I guess the way I might see it is that I could not imagine a theatre organ without a vox or a church organ without a diapason. I know that in the small theatre style organ I am building a vox is a must for me. Gary K. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:56:34 EST From: ORGANUT@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Gary, In TO organ circles, "If a little bit helps, then a lot really gets the job done". Hence the need for an apiary of bird calls; no doubt with "celeste". Later, Phil L. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:40:45 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jan Girardot wrote: > If you haven't heard Sidney Torch play them, you couldn't understand! I know I haven't heard it. What songs did he play using the tuned bird whistles? > A really funny and interesting sound, IMHO. Jan Which also could be said of the kinura. Gary K. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:24:10 -0800 From: Paul West Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana Gary wrote: > > Is the vox humana considered to be more as a theatre organ stop rather > than a church organ stop? > > The reason I ask this is that I have heard church organists refer to the > vox humana as a non-rank by refering to an organ as having X number of > ranks plus a vox. I know that the stop existed before the theatre organ in > that reed organs had the lable "vox humana" on the knob that controled the > fan tremulant. > > A three rank theatre organ usually has a string, flute and a vox but a > three rank church organ would have string flute and diapason. > > I guess the way I might see it is that I could not imagine a theatre organ > without a vox or a church organ without a diapason. I know that in the > small theatre style organ I am building a vox is a must for me. > > Gary K. The vox humana stop has been around for centuries. "A New History of the Organ" by Peter Williams lists a French organ made in 1580 that had a vox humana. But it wasn't considered an essential or important stop by the 18th century German organ builders (time of Bach), and I think that influences modern church organ attitudes about it. On the other hand, I have a memory of a description of a Dutch organ in "Hans Brinker or the Silver Skates" that considered the vox humana the high point of an organ concert there. But you're absolutely right that it was only in the theater organs that a vox humana was considered one of the three or four essential voices. Paul -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:39:26 -0500 From: Stanley Lowkis Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query Gary wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jan Girardot wrote: > > > If you haven't heard Sidney Torch play them, you couldn't understand! > > I know I haven't heard it. What songs did he play using the tuned bird > whistles? > Sidney Torch performed a novelty piece titled "Hot Dog" using the bird whistles. It is an inspired piece of manic lunacy! His performance can be heard on various compilations of '30s Cinema Organ CD reissues. I recommend the Pearl Flapper label "Cinema Organ Volume 1" PAST CD 9722 Stan -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:55:56 EST From: TIBVOX@aol.com Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana Hi, List, Back in the 1920's the standard opening of a church organ salesman's pitch was: "Ok, we start with Vox, Harp, and Chimes. Now, what else would you like?" Cheers, Harry Heth -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:22:34 +1000 From: John Giacchi Subject: [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana -Reply gorgeous, Harry....simply gorgeous!!!! -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:37:08 -0600 From: Kevin Cartwright Subject: HELP!!!!! Below is what I'm sending to as many individuals and organizations as I can find. Kevin C. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> The area high school is building a new facility, which includes a new 1000 seat auditorium. I contacted administration about a theatre organ, and they approved the idea, and gave me four months to return exact chamber sizes. I have one month left, and no organ. The school is searching for an owner who would donate for a tax write-off. I am writing to ask if you know of any theatre pipe organ for sale in the area. 5 or 6 ranks is the minimum, while we cannot accommodate any organ above 30 or 35 ranks. Any help you might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated. Please reply. Thank you, Kevin Cartwright Organ Search Representative, Greenville High School Greenville, Alabama (334) 382-7756 kevin1@alaweb.com <><><>Continued-<><><><><><><><><><><><> I'll add: Any organ we recieve will fall under the care of myself and a few other local organ enthuiasts. I have been doing summer work for Barger and Nix Pipe Organs, Chattanooga, TN. The above technician will probably visit the organ twice each year at my expense. The organ builder is experienced with theatre organs, and owns a residence organ, a 3/12 WurliTzer/Marr Colton w/electronic 32' and additional 16' pedal bass. I am involved with the Alabama Chapter ATOS (a.k.a. Birmingham Chapter ATOS). Chapter help with the school's organ will be limited, due to the excessive driving distance required for many of its most active members to drive to the location. The organ will belong to the Butler County Board of Education, and will most likely be classified as a public resource. The organ will be used for solo programs, congregational singing, choral acc., band/orchestra acc., drama acc., and any other needed tasks. The auditorium will be used for public events in addition to school events. There are two large chamber areas that can be subdivided to create more, smaller chambers. These chambers are to stage left and stage right. They will speak into the stage area, as several theatre organs do, and resembling the way a church organ speaks into the chancel. The creation of an actual sunken pit is being discussed. The console will reside in the pit. If there is no pit, it will reside on a lift at the front of the auditorium, or will be placed on a platform with casters. -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:00:17 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Trousdale Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana >Is the vox humana considered to be more as a theatre organ stop >rather than a church organ stop? One last gasp for this thread. The pipes are the same; the pressures are similar but the tremulant is another matter entirely. A church organ vox is lightly tremmed and can be used as an accompaniment stop all by itself. It is occasionally enclosed in its own little swell box to mute it a little. A theatre vox is severely tremmed; you would never use it by itself (unless you are George Wright in a comical moment). It is always used either together with a tibia or with a big bunch of strings. Bob -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:24:54 +0800 (SGT) From: Bob Grommes Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] Vox Humana I have always suspected that one of the factors that influenced the vox in early T.O. and pit organ designs is that it is a relatively compact and inexpensive stop to make. This, coupled with its unique sound, made it a good choice for a tiny, low-cost organ. I suspect that the clarinet is another one of the first reed voices in a small organ for size and cost reasons as well. Both the vox and the clarinet are undersized, according to what I've read they are often less than half the length of most other pipes. There's a lot of materials savings there. --Bob Grommes Phoenix AZ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:38:23 -0600 From: "Philip and Diane Underwood" Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] 1' Tibias/Flutes Hello Everyone, Dick Willson had written: > How many on the list have tried to tune the 1' octave? I gave it a try and gave up. 2' octave not much better. I figure that is what solid state is good for. Phil the Fuelman -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 20:00:25 -0800 From: Bob Loesch Subject: Re: [theatreorgans-l] FWD: Tuned Bird Whistles Query At 15:40 12/7/98 -0600, Gary wrote: >I know I haven't heard it. What songs did [Sidney Torch] play using the tuned >bird whistles? Hot Dog and Cuckoo in the Nest, to name just two. He mixed the tuned birds with a single-stroke xylophone and a 2'(?) tibia, and played single notes. Regards, Bob http://www.jps.net/rrloesch Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed... -Message Break-------------------------------------------------------- End Theatreorgans-L Digest (12/08 00:00) ****************************************